The unCommon Exposè
I want to change your life by sharing someone else's.
Join me & my guests as we share the raw & honest stories of everyday women.
If you'd love to be a guest please reach me at @uncommonex.
The unCommon Exposè
Female Genital Mutilation and Bravery
*warning Female Genital Mutilation, intercourse & culture discussed in the episode
Thank you to Zeniab for having the courage to share your story and experience with Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and being a refugee.
I am honoured that I have been chosen to share this in depth recount of her procedure, relocation to Australia and her incredible life that she has built for herself.
This podcast will leave you in tears, with goosebumps but mostly importantly be in awe of the strength and bravery Z has shown not only through her life, but also with sharing this part of her life.
Thank you again.
Don't forget to follow us on Instagram @uncommonex!
Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome beautiful mamas, I am your host Shea Harrison. This podcast is a place for Springfield and local surrounding area mamas to share their stories about life, motherhood and everything in between, completely judgement free. I am so excited to be able to share these stories with you and give women an opportunity to be heard. So if you're ready to laugh, open your mind and be part of a supportive sharing community, let's crack on. Welcome beautiful mamas, I am your host Shea Harrison. This podcast is a place for Springfield and local surrounding area mamas to share their stories about life, motherhood and everything in between, completely judgement free. Welcome to episode 17 of Stories of Springfield Mummies. Today's podcast is brought to you by Gym and Tonic Movement. So Springfield's women's only boot camps with sessions running from Rebelle Domain. Friendships, fun and just generally moving your body is the main focus of all of the sessions with Gym and Tonic Movement to help you fall in love with exercise and yourself again. For more information head to either the website at www.gymantonicmovement.com or or search Gym and Tonic Movement on social media. Let's go. Hi, welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling? Feeling good, thank you. Awesome. Now, do you just want to introduce yourself
SPEAKER_01:for our listeners? Sure. My name's Zainab. I'm a mom of three. I have two girls and a boy. My boy's four, my middle child is three, and my youngest is one.
SPEAKER_00:They are the cutest little bundles of perfection. They are just gorgeous. I want to start off this podcast by just saying thank you so much for coming on. I feel really honoured that you have decided to share your story with myself and also on this platform. So thank you very much. Pleasure, my pleasure. But whenever you're ready, let's crack on with your story. Okay,
SPEAKER_01:all right. So basically my story that I'd like to talk about today is my experience with FGM and FGM stands for female genital mutilation which is something that is culturally normal um in in my in our culture I guess and my country um
SPEAKER_00:are you happy to clarify just what that culture is
SPEAKER_01:yep so I'm East African I'm Somalian so it's very common like in a lot of African countries and Middle Eastern and sometimes even parts of Asia as well um FGM is very common in those parts of the world uh so So that's something that happened to us, to me and my sisters when we were younger. And that's what I want to talk about today. Yeah. So basically it kind of starts, we were refugees. So in 91, there was war in Somalia. So my mom migrated to Kenya and then we lived in a refugee camp for a long time. And we waited until we got like a process, which is basically our application was accepted to come to Australia and then my mum started to panic like all my older sisters already had their circumcision done their FGM done and she knew that we were going soon so she needed to get it done she contacted one of the elders um locally that does it and I remember we were kind of sleeping in our tents um in in the concentration camp and they they got me and my sister I was four at the time and my sister was six and a few months so they laid us on the ground inside the tent on the floor and they tied our hands like like a star so one hand the other hand and then like legs wide open and then um like I didn't know what was about to happen but obviously I knew something was going to happen and it wasn't going to be pleasant so I started pleading with the lady and my sister was she was silent she didn't say anything so I just started to say um in my language it's which basically that phrase it translates as like auntie slow down but what i meant is like culturally we call all of our elders auntie or uncle and then i was just telling her to take it easy on me whatever she was going to do um so sorry no she um she proceeded to get like a razor blade and There's different types of FGM. So for me, she combined two different types. The first part of the procedure, she removed all the external and the visible, like the labia, the hood for the clitoris, and any clitoris that was visible. She completely removed that. She combined that
SPEAKER_00:procedure sorry no that's fine
SPEAKER_01:okay yeah so she combined that first procedure with um another procedure another type of FGM which is um it's referred to as infibulation which is the narrowing of the vaginal opening or in my case what she did was that she completely sealed the vaginal opening so she used stitches and she completely sewed me all the way up there was no opening at all not even enough to urinate so and during the procedure I'm screaming I'm wailing so they've used like no numbing cream nothing like there's no medical setting like I can feel every cut every stitch I'm four years old and I'm just keep saying take it easy on me and um
SPEAKER_00:did you at any point say stop
SPEAKER_01:I just said because I just kept...
SPEAKER_00:Is it because it was accepted? Yes. You knew that your sisters had already had this procedure? Yeah, that every one of my sisters had
SPEAKER_01:had it. It's culturally normal. Actually, it's almost, like, shameful if your children don't have it. That's why my mum started to panic when we were going overseas. Like, how am I going to take girls that aren't circumcised overseas? Because also she didn't know that overseas meant, like, it's not Somalia anymore. Like, it's a different country with different people and, like, it's a different culture. So for her, it was still... malian culture and
SPEAKER_00:um she thought she was doing the best thing
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah like everyone had had it done like it's only normal or fair she almost felt like it wouldn't be fair to us if she didn't do that to us so um once she got done with me and my sister's procedure we were left there to lie on the floor to kind of like clean the blood or whatever and then we needed to heal so they kept us tied so we didn't like touch or anything like that so we were there that was the procedure happened exactly seven days before we were scheduled to fly to australia
SPEAKER_00:so do you remember crying
SPEAKER_01:yeah i was i was crying like the whole procedure i was just crying i just kept repeating like a broken record like that phrase like slow down take it easy on me take it easy on me and that's all i kept repeating and crying at the same time and um and she didn't like she just kept going because i guess she's used to it but we were younger than the girls that she normally does because the age is seven seven you get your daughters circumcised me and my sister were four and six so we weren't quite of age but she had to kind of do it because we were going overseas and mum didn't know when she'd find someone in overseas
SPEAKER_00:yes
SPEAKER_01:to do it so that's why we had it done younger then um 1996 in april we were flown to sydney australia yeah probably the best thing that could have happened to me really i don't think i'd be here today if if we weren't um flown here
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:we were flown here they had a house ready for us in Bondi Junction right down by the
SPEAKER_00:beach
SPEAKER_01:and yeah we had the most beautiful social workers and medical team just to come check because we came from a refugee camp just to come check our health and all that and till this day those social workers are like my grandparents kind of so we always catch up when I go to Sydney so I came to Australia and then I was here for about no one's known that i haven't urinated i'm not able to urinate at all like i'm swelling i have like my feet and my hands are like swollen haven't gone to the toilet for the seven days i was in somalia and for the 12 weeks i was in australia for the first 12 weeks and i'm just like
SPEAKER_00:You're four, you don't really know. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I'm going to the toilet, but I'm not urinating. So they don't know, like, what's going on. But I didn't really say, hey, I'm not urinating. So no one really...
SPEAKER_00:Because at that point, I assume you were going to the bathroom by yourself. Yeah, I
SPEAKER_01:was going to the bathroom by myself. I was drinking by myself. But all I remember is my hands were so big and my feet and my stomach. It was bloated, but a little past bloated. But then they thought when eventually I went to the doctor, they thought, oh, maybe because she came from a foreign country, maybe it's like malaria or something like that. So they started treating me for malaria. And I remember the nurse used to come to my house and give me like a tablet a day um then still kept swelling still had pains and like it just got worse till my body kind of got to a point where it like it just shut down and I just fainted I passed out I woke up at Westmead Children's Hospital and all I remember is there was like a whole group of like medical professionals students just surrounding me in my room and like I didn't know what was going on but to them this was unfamiliar like this was like what is this it was almost like it felt they were very in my business like they had taken photos x-rays and I guess to them they're trying to figure out like what is this and what's happening but at the same time there was like images I don't know if they use it anymore but you know like when you get like an x-ray you take it to your GP they put it on that light yeah yeah so they had like a vagina yeah all up on the lights everywhere and like they've got students and medical professionals like looking at it and then talking about it so everywhere you go in the hospital corner I felt like someone was talking about me but um at the same time they they saved my life they they um took out some of the stitching so at least I had I had um space to urinate yeah and I had to stay in hospital because I had like infections I had like everything that you could think of basically that could have been caused by not being able to pee and it just swelling up internally um I stayed in the hospital I think it was five and a half months I was with children it became like my my home basically for the first couple of months of my life in a new country and mom used to come visit me daily like they took care of me I had the most amazing health care team the nurses the doctors they were all amazing and It was great to finally be able to go to the toilet again, that's for sure. Yeah. But I remember when my mum, because a lot of people confuse culture with religion, and my mum, what she did to us was culturally normal, but religiously unacceptable. And in my country, they confuse the two. So I remember my mum coming to me and saying, when she'd learned a little bit more about her faith and stuff and she was like crying and she was like please forgive me like I didn't know any better like I wish I could take back what was done to you but it's already happened and it's in the past and she's like even if it takes time I hope that you can forgive me and like we forgave her like straight away you know like obviously she's mum and she did what everyone else was doing and that was normal in my country and And then after I came out of hospital, I was a normal kid again and just growing and loving being in a new country and everything. And the only time I ever really had issues as a child was when I was urinating. It always felt like burning. It always felt like it was burning. And then over time, I feel like I kind of got used to it, so I almost didn't feel it anymore. And then it didn't cause me any issues until... I was pregnant with with my son with my first child and um when I was pregnant like I remember my first antenatal clinic appointment when they have to like check inside because obviously they have my history they can see that I was in hospital whatever FGM and all that is on there and um and she the the midwife asked me you know if she could check in everything I was like yeah sure so she checked and the first thing she said to me is like look it looks like we might have to do Like if you have natural birth, we'll have to cut.
SPEAKER_00:An episiotomy?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's what it's called. She said, it looks like that's what we might have to do because it's quite narrow still, even though because like they only open enough for mid urinate. They didn't do the whole thing. Okay. And then I was like, okay. So then the further I got in my pregnancy, the more discomfort that I had. A lot of pressure. Yeah. It was like it almost like I kept telling the midwife, like when I would go almost feel like even though I wasn't close to full term or anything like that it always felt like there was so much pressure like I could almost say that I'm going to have my baby if I didn't know what it felt like to have a baby I would always my first pregnancy I feel like I'm going to have the baby like it's so much pressure it's just constant pressure and it doesn't go away and then like even with like I'd have like spotting and stuff and I guess that's kind of normal but But um, I had like a lot of that like I have like a lot of blood then it would be fine and then And then when I had my son, I did have to have an episiotomy. And then the recovery was, it felt like I was circumcised all over again, honestly. Like it's just, I don't know if it's psychological, but like when those stitches were put back in, it like took me back mentally. Yeah, it like mentally took me back to the place that I was at, that I was like, I was holding my urine, like I was actually holding it in. naturally it just happened like I just clenched up and and then that was another issue that I had to eventually overcome and I'd spoken to my GP about it and things like that but you know relax and all these things that they tell you but yeah it took me maybe six months to heal from my first pregnancy like the bleeding because it continued like after I had a baby it just continued and then like the urinating and all that it took me six months to
SPEAKER_00:did you have any interventions like pain related epidural during labor no gas
SPEAKER_01:no they they tried to offer me gas but i didn't like because i felt like i couldn't breathe like when i had it it was taking up my my air so i like
SPEAKER_00:so you were fully present yeah through the whole labor through the whole birthing through the the birth canal yeah and everything no wonder it yeah took you straight back yeah
SPEAKER_01:it
SPEAKER_00:was it's hard enough having i think a labor without any interventions as a woman yeah you're courageous and then yeah wow
SPEAKER_01:yeah i didn't want any um any epidural they offered me that and i was like no i don't want it but as soon as those stitches were put back in like i went immediately back to four yeah i went immediately back to the feeling that i had when i was four years old
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_01:and my body just like tensed up and yeah it took me a long time to come back from that and then I was I was always scared with my other two pregnancies as well like it was um it was the same experience so I'm always I love my kids
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_01:but I'm always scared because I know that I'll always go back there yeah I I think i will go i have been back there the times that i've been pregnant um and that's like the biggest challenge for me is is that part because it like it haunts me like when i was younger i used to have dreams about it
SPEAKER_00:like yeah nightmares
SPEAKER_01:yeah so um My sister, my older sister, because I have a lot of sisters, but my eldest sister that was there the day that basically was watching us be tied up, that wasn't allowed to help us. As soon as we came here, she became a social worker and she became an advocate for FGM to stop because it still happens to this day. Yeah. in my country and it's actually illegal and you can face up to, I think in Queensland, I think it's up to five years imprisonment. That's not enough. I know. I don't need to tell you that, do I? Life behind bars. Yeah. So, like, I feel like It should be more time, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:I agree 100%. And I think anyone who listens to this would be in agreeance with you.
SPEAKER_01:Like change. And the reason that they do it is because it's purity for them. You know, you're stopping. Basically, it's, again, another form of submission to a man. A woman is only here to please a man kind of thing. And it kind of just backs that up because you're taking, I guess, her power from her. like the feeling is decreased and like what I had done is not as severe as the other types that are out there there are types where they remove and I don't know if it was because I was so young maybe she couldn't see it or I don't know what she was doing but sometimes they'll remove the entire clitoris so there'll literally be like a bowl like an empty bowl and like the labia is gone and it's just nothing left only the outer lips will be left and everything else is gone so there are forms which are like severe um for me while it was it wasn't pleasant she removed everything on the outside so everything on the inside is still there she just sewed me up which that's what caused me most of my grief was was not being able to go to the toilet yeah um but people that come here or anywhere or now at least they have more knowledge of what this is and how much that it can cause a woman but then for them to like consciously make the decision to take their child overseas and have this procedure done to them
SPEAKER_00:oh i didn't realize that that was
SPEAKER_01:yeah that's what that happened yeah that's what they do so like when they have kids here in australia in australia western country okay yeah they take them back because you can't do it here there's no female circumcision fgm here there's boys um so then then they take them back home home have it done then come here because it's not like at the airport they're checking open your legs and then come back open your legs you know it's not so you can you could hide it easy easier yes but I know that now they're doing more to prevent that from happening.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Because I know of a case where a woman tried to do that. Well, she did do that and then she was imprisoned for five years. So I feel like if it's something that you did like at the time where it was normal when you lived in your country and you came here and you learned better, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:But if you have the knowledge and you know that it serves no benefit to girls for you to do that, that to them you're not causing them you're not giving them anything that's beneficial for them actually you're putting them in danger because the people that perform these um procedures they have no medical background no certification they're they're not
SPEAKER_00:unsterile yeah
SPEAKER_01:like it's unsterile it's literally on the ground in the middle of nowhere anywhere and she's using a razor blade and like um string like you would sew your clothes so like it's not it's not safe like you could get an infection and you could die i remember actually my one of my sisters had her leg like swelled up because she there was an issue where she had an infection um as well so like i feel like we need to it's not enough what's being done at the moment a lot more needs to happen but at least some things are in place and um and yeah so my story
SPEAKER_00:that's incredible thank you so much for sharing my
SPEAKER_03:pleasure
SPEAKER_00:um i just have a couple of questions if that's okay of course so you were in the refugee camp when this happened did this happen in the refugee camp or did your mother take you out of the camp for the procedure
SPEAKER_01:she she took us out of the camp for the procedure so we were sleeping in a tent she had organized
SPEAKER_00:in
SPEAKER_01:the refugee camp okay so we were taken to the lady for her to do it for us so we were sleeping inside a tent
SPEAKER_00:who's running the refugee
SPEAKER_01:camp
SPEAKER_00:And, like, is it a Western refugee camp that's to
SPEAKER_01:prepare you? And then why is there legion? So the refugee camp, they have, like, sections. They don't really have– it's not really, like, controlled. It's kind of like a community, you know, and you live there. Yeah, there's people that you can go communicate to, you can talk to, but it's like community living kind of thing, you know. So you're still independently functioning and living. You just, like– under aid like the umbrella of like the refugee camp so you still have freedom to do live how you want to live I guess so if she wanted to come to our tent in the refugee camp she could have no one would stop her it's not there's no gates there no one's checking
SPEAKER_00:anything this is what I'm imagining like kind of a fenced area that people who are going to relocate to international countries are in this thing yeah then your mum's sneaking you out in the dark of the night is what I'm envisioning but obviously what eye picture isn't accurate yeah
SPEAKER_01:no like it's more like a community and you know some people that live in the refugee camp not all of them are successful to go overseas so they might live there forever
SPEAKER_00:yeah okay
SPEAKER_01:so it's kind of like community living kind of thing um but yeah
SPEAKER_00:is male circumcision it's
SPEAKER_01:that male circumcision is like compulsory in in my culture
SPEAKER_00:okay that was my question yeah
SPEAKER_01:yeah so they definitely
SPEAKER_00:it's not just a women's specific thing to make you clean air
SPEAKER_01:quotations no no male circumcision they yeah that's like definitely done but the female circumcision is is done for that purpose for purity purposes the guys one is done they think like it prevents infections and you know things like cleanliness so that's you know beneficial for the boys but for the woman yeah she needs to be pure like she she needs to be like no one's going to marry her if she's not pure and the like that is literally what what it is is to almost like break them down or like take away their their power and that's the difference between the male circumcision in my culture and the female circumcision is that the reasoning behind it culturally is different so
SPEAKER_00:and then your husband yeah so is he Somalian as well
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:obviously you have two little girls yeah I can imagine you are 100% against it and he I used Oh yeah, he's like,
SPEAKER_01:he's absolutely against it because like, yeah, he would, he doesn't understand the whole thing. Like, he's like, I don't understand why they would do that to females. So he's very much against it. And like, we would, we wouldn't, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, honestly. Like, it's not... it's not necessary at all there's no benefit
SPEAKER_00:no no not at all yeah um so is your husband a refugee as well
SPEAKER_01:yes but they were sent to new zealand so okay they were flown to new zealand at way later than we were
SPEAKER_00:but yeah he's also and so he would have had an understanding of what has happened before he met you
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah yeah oh yes he did because and also that's like a whole nother like story yeah like in intercourse and with circumcision is the most painful experience like initially it was it was very painful too yeah when we got married like Like, I remember, I guess, the first seven days I was married. Like, we tried. And then I was like, no, like, it's too painful. Like, stop. And then it was maybe, like, a week before. And, like, you know, even sometimes every now and again, especially, like, after I've had a child, I'm always, like, afraid because it's– I feel it more. I feel the pain more. It's uncomfortable. It feels almost like a stab, like a knife kind of stab. It's not very pleasant. But once... I guess after the first month then I was able to kind of relax and also like the thing is like I would tense up as well and that was also was contributing so I you know I went to a gynecologist you know we did some exercises and things like that which helped like try and get me to relax and things like that so that definitely helps so I mean if anybody out there is experiencing any discomfort from having this procedure done, then definitely seek medical attention. And it's horrible, but there's ways to live with it and still live a full life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Do you want more babies?
SPEAKER_01:Mentally, I do. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:okay.
SPEAKER_01:But physically... i don't think that i will
SPEAKER_00:i think you are just incredible for having three my first one i was like and then i have no experience in you know what you have gone through in your life yeah so you are just i am blown away by you and your power and strength and like you've said just You live a normal life. You're running an amazing business. You've got three beautiful children and you're a beautiful human, which is probably the most important part. Alrighty. I, um, I just have one more, I think one more question. I don't know. We'll get to the end and I'll be like, Oh wait, I have more. Um, so you've mentioned that you and your sister and your mother have all had the same shared experience. Um, and how, how did they feel about you coming to me today to share this?
SPEAKER_01:Um, well, I, I spoke to, I spoke to my family and, uh, they're very supportive. Like they, they said, you know, it's your story. Like if you, if there's anything that you want to run over, like my sister was like write it down and then call me and then read it to me and I can help help you word it better if you want so like my family's very supportive like they've always been supportive um and my sister my eldest sister she's an advocate for um
SPEAKER_00:how old is your sister
SPEAKER_01:she is 46
SPEAKER_00:and how old was she do you remember because you said seven
SPEAKER_01:24 years ago I've been in Australia for 26 years or something like that yeah 24 so she would have been she was a teenager
SPEAKER_00:when she had her
SPEAKER_01:oh well no when she she was seven
SPEAKER_00:oh she was seven and then she was a teenager when she when
SPEAKER_01:we had when we
SPEAKER_00:had and she was the one that was there
SPEAKER_01:yeah she was the one
SPEAKER_00:so she would have it how many so she's obviously a number years older than you so she would have quite a clear memory of the process that you and your other sister went through yeah she was present so she would she had the most insight yeah yeah well perfect advocate yeah to say i've seen this firsthand like i know
SPEAKER_01:and she's witnessed
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:she's witnessed it being done and that's one of the reasons why she became, well that's primarily the reason why she became an advocate and she does lots of things in the community and she does lots of translations of pamphlets from English to my language so my community can understand it and all and through her I've had lots of offers or opportunities to tell my story And I've not been ready. Like, I've never spoken about this. I've never shared it with anyone except for you, of course. And I just... like i'm familiar with you like i feel comfortable and and it almost like it's like a load off my chest just to finally i feel like i can breathe now so thank you no
SPEAKER_00:thank you thank you thank you again so much i've said thank you like a thousand times but i feel like the word thank you is not enough to convey the amount of appreciation that i have for you and for you to come on here and give me your time first of all i'm always grateful to everyone who comes onto the podcast But this story in particular and being the first person that you've shared this with, I am just so humbled and honoured. And thank you so much. My pleasure. And I think that that's it. But, yeah, thank you. Thank you again. So in the show comments, just on Spotify or whatever, I will put your sister's point of contact. So if anyone has any questions or, you know, is, I think, interested. Yeah. more than interested but wants to learn about the process overseas and how like what's being done as your sister is an advocate to prevent these things happening i will put that on there
SPEAKER_01:perfect
SPEAKER_00:but thank you again