The unCommon Exposè
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The unCommon Exposè
Queer & Life.
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TRIGGER WARNING: sexuality, sexual assult, religious beliefs
Join Amy as she shares her Queer story.
From exploring her sexuality and coming out story, to marriage, babies and sex, we share all the intimate details of being Queer.
This story is for every woman, both hetero and Queer.
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The Uncommon Expose, where I'm changing your life by sharing someone else's. Will you help me change someone's life by hitting subscribe? Trigger warning. This episode discusses sexuality, sexual assault, and religious beliefs. If you find any of these things triggering, please do not listen. Hello, welcome to the Uncommon Expose. I am so excited. This story has been a long time coming because you've messaged me that you were interested in sharing, but it's kind of taken a little while for us to get here. So I am excited. Let's crack on. I'll get you to introduce yourself and then we'll jump straight in. Yep.
SPEAKER_00I'm Amy. I'm 33, mother of two twin boys, beautiful, and wife of Cinta from Unique U Health. Always got to put that in there. Everyone knows that. Yeah, no, no. So and my story. So is that where we've got? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Just what's what are we going to be talking about? And then let's crack onto it. Share my queer story. So essentially. Me from a young age, my coming out all through to married with kids.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I love that. This is exciting. I'm going to have so many questions because I'm an ally. Yeah. Fully through and through. When I was in the UK, I was referred to as a fag hag because I had so many gay friends. But there's just it it feels still taboo.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like so many topics and things.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I think I'm going to have a lot of questions. Definitely. So and like there's even even to me now, like there's a lot of questions in my whole life. Like it's just always. So I'm happy. I've said to everyone, like, I'm that kind of person that'll share. So if you have questions, ask, nothing's off limits for me. I'll tell you, I'll tell you the gory detail if you want to know it. Yeah, I love that. Okay, cool. So let's start from the beginning. Where does your story start? Um, so probably it it does actually start with a little bit of sexual assault. Um, at about what was that, 14? Yeah. So I had this moment of I wasn't sure what I was doing in my life. I was a massive tomboy growing up through and through. You look at photos of me from like seven and I'm short hair, yeah. Take songa. Yeah. And so at that like 14 stage, I had no idea. I was lost. You know, that like moment of 14, you're like that entering that world of like that sexualness and all that kind of stuff. And then there was also that confusion of I didn't know what gender I liked, and I'd been told, boys, everything is boys. I was like, okay, I've got to date a guy.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Were you by your parents? It was that there, but my parents and my only date women only date men.
SPEAKER_00Well, it was just that it was what is it like 18 years ago now? Yeah. At this point. So back then it was just the norm. Yeah, okay. The friends were boys, boys, boys, boys, boys, boys, boys. And the teachers are like segregating boys and girls because at that stage, yeah, bit of someone just starts making out the middle school. Yeah. Like, and it was just and like just that whole part of that in that like 18 years ago kind of area, it was just a taboo subject completely. It's just girls were with boys and boys were with girls.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There was no like crossover.
SPEAKER_04Crossover. For children, anyway. That was inappropriate for children to think about or talk about. Yeah. Girls go through puberty, boys go through puberty.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And so for me, it was like, okay, like I was lost, didn't really know what I was feeling. I um dated a guy. But he was five years older than me. Oh wow. And that was just because I was in this situation of I felt like I kind of had to try and elevate myself. All the young high school boys are so immature, I can't deal with them. Let's find somebody who is a bit more. But what that did lead to is him putting me in a position that I was incredibly uncomfortable with. Okay. So he asked me to meet up with him at his work. Yeah. Um, because he was 18, 19. Yeah. And you were 14 still. I was 14 still. Yeah. And like at this stage, like obviously you you want to start experimenting, exploring. And so I was kind of like, oh, let's see, like is it nerves or is it uncomfortable? And then so then he's like pulled me into the bathroom in his work in a toy store. Ooh. Right. Sorry. And like he's pushed me up against the wall, he started putting himself on me, and then pulled it out, started to like, and luckily he hadn't thought the situation through enough. And I still had my phone. I think I was like wearing a jackety thing, and my phone was in my pocket. And just as it was all kind of about to hit that can't go back from stage, like he was literally about to rape me. And my dad called. Oh wow. And I answered the phone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like obviously at that moment, you're like trying to sexually assault this chick, and her and she answers the phone to her dad. What you step away, you walk away. He retreated so fast, never spoke to me again, just completely ghosted me after that point because he didn't know what I had said. Yeah. I never spoke about it to anybody. I actually held on to it.
SPEAKER_04Were you were you you were virgin at that point? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like completely completely, yeah. Okay. So he was the first, like, serious boyfriend. Yeah. Like I kissed a guy, but that's about it. And I hadn't done anything with girls at that point because, yeah, still questioning myself on what I actually wanted and liked.
SPEAKER_04Like. As a f like your first experience with anything. Yeah. Like that's such a reflection of that boy, man. Yeah. Like, you want it to be speci whether you're gay or straight, you want it to be special, right? Like not being in the middle of a toy store bathroom. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Being pressed up against the wall. Like. Oh my god. It's a disabled bathroom, so it's like one of the big ones, like the same kind of size room we're in now. Like.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like, yeah, you know, that's real sexy. Like hot. Real induces the moment. Yeah. But yeah, like I was, I'm so grateful for the fact that my dad called me in that situation. I my dad still has no idea to this day. Okay. So if he happens to listen to this, well done, Dad. Yeah, oh my good on him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Um, that's a whole different subject. We'll we'll continue. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so he yeah, after that point, I had kind of reserved myself a bit more, didn't put myself in situations. Um, I remember sitting at home watching TV. I was telling Santa this in the cards before, that I was watching TV, flicking through the TV, and um women's tenants came on. Oh yeah. And I went, okay, maybe, maybe I give girls a try. Like, yeah. This interests me. And like, I think that's the big thing is I always for a very long time I blamed that sexual assault. But then I realized that I had that questioning ability before that sexual assault. Yeah. That sexual assault just made me reserve from the men's side of things. Yeah. And it gave me the confidence to explore that like desire to look into women more. So probably about 15, I ended up in a relationship with a girl. Um, just a school crushed relationship, that thing. She was kind of the first one I kind of experimented more with girls and things like that, but that's obviously just a school thing. Um then high school finished. I just kept dating men up until oh my coming out story was that with that girl um to my parents. So it's actually one that I never got to control. Okay. So I was dating her. We're in that you know, that like flirty stage where you're like, and let's date this back to it's MySpace days. Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah. We're back in MySpace. That sets the scene. Yeah, so setting the scene there. So MySpace days were like we're in that kind of corner of the relationship where she now has my password. Oh yeah, okay, that's a big deal. Like, and so she has changed my relationship status and my and because I'm pretty sure MySpace gave you who you're interested in and what your relationship status was. And she changed it to interested in women and relationship status in a relationship and everything like that. And she called me and I was like, Was this personal lesbian? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was she was dedicated and you were still exploring. I was still exploring, I was still keeping my kind of options open, but didn't really know. She was actually younger than me by about a year. Um, but we still keep it touched now, like like she kind of set the whole precedence for me and actually gave me the courage to come out into my own zone um type thing. So yeah, like I'll always like thank Ashley for what she did in my high school years. So um, but so she'd done all that and called me and was like, haha, you should check out your mass space page, things like that. Yeah, and then I was on the computer, once again, setting a scene, MySpace Day, so obviously there's one computer in the house. Yes, it's in the one room. Yeah, everyone has access and you all have time limits.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and it dials up.
SPEAKER_00And dials up. Signing me, yeah. My mum called me out of the room. I really now think this is an employee so she could kind of see what I was doing. Right. Called me out of the room and told me, I think it was like, go clean my room, go clean up the clothes so she can do laundry or something like that. And I come back and she's at the computer. I've left my MySpace page up on the screen. She's gone, what's this? And been sticky beat mum as always. And she turned around and said, Um, Amy, you have to eat some explaining to do. And I was like, Well, yes. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I I am definitely in a relationship with a girl at the moment. So like it was a bit of a forced, like coming out story. I really didn't get to choose the setting, things like that. And also I wasn't really knowledgeable on what I was actually wanting. I knew I definitely liked women, I wasn't sure on men.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, type thing. So I wasn't quite sure where I was sitting in that aspect. And I got the talk of one, go tell your dad. And I was like, you tell him. Yeah. And then she also gave me that sort of, oh, look, you're only young, keep your options open. Yeah. Um, and like make sure you like play both sides. And like I look back on it now and I'm like, Mom, it could have just been supportive and said, I'd just be who you want to be. Yeah. And but like, she really wanted me to end up with a guy, and she was kind of always pushed towards the guys and things like that. My dad always told me the guys were a cover, and he always asked me anytime I had a boyfriend after that point of, oh, who's the girl you're dating? Why is he a cover? And so, like, there was a lot of that shame kind of thing to it all, too.
SPEAKER_04Like, just do you think that some of their concern and redirection towards men was because at the time being a lesbian or being bisexual was so taboo and they were worried about how I want to say hard, hard your life would be.
SPEAKER_00My mum definitely did say, like use that as an excuse for a long time. As an adult, I look back on it now and I feel there was a lot more personal reasons for her than more concern for me. Okay. Um my mum is a very narcissistic lady, and I I I love her dearly, but I don't talk to her anymore because of a lot of the way she's treated me throughout my whole life.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, and things like that. So I look back now and it was very self-obsessed in the way that she did things. Right, okay. And it would be like, um, oh, it's gonna have a hard life, but then she'd be like, oh, like you should worry about personal appearance of it doesn't look good for my girl to be dating a girl. Like yeah. Yeah, okay. And yeah, so I definitely she pushed me a lot more towards guys, oh here's this guy, or he's this guy, and I'll be like, Well, actually, I have a girlfriend. She'd be like, Oh, that's okay. That's a phase. That's a phase. Yeah, that's a phase. Like, you grow out of that. I hit 18 and I turned around and said, I'm I'm an adult. Yeah, I want to date women, and exclusively women. I don't want to date men. I have no interest in them. I find them disgusting. I find the whole whole part of the relationship disgusting. Can't imagine the beard, the the penis, I can't think of it. Like just no. Yeah. So um, I made that call at 18. They respected it, but you can kind of tell they never really accepted any of my partners from that point on. Right. So um, they say they did, but you could tell that they would like just be happy for the minute that I was happy. And then as soon as they had to have a relationship with my female partner, it was very hard.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So that definitely um made it harder for me. I didn't tend to bring someone home nearly as much. I had a couple more like committed girlfriends for a little bit. The most it kind of leads into there's three women in my life that led me to where I am now. Obviously, one's my wife, one's my ex-wife, and then one is her ex-girlfriend. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_04Can I circle back just quickly? So between the age of 15 and 18, 18 was when you knew you were a lesbian. I dated a couple of different guys. You did date men in that time.
SPEAKER_00I slept with men too, so I did have intercourse with them and everything like that. Like, um, I had one committed guy relationship that I was very exclusively like sleeping with him and things like that. But it was not fun. Okay. I did not enjoy it. Yeah. I actually can tell you the last time I slept with a guy, I was 18. It was a guy I'd known for a couple of years, and he'd moved away and he was visiting, and it was like a one-night stand thing, and literally halfway through the experience, I said, You're gonna have to stop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's not doing it for me. Yeah. And he offered a couple of different ways, and I said, No, I'm gonna leave the room. Yeah. Do what you need to do. Yeah. I will be downstairs in minimum five minutes, and I'll drop you back at the train station. Yeah. And drop you back to the train station and just yeah, I know, right?
SPEAKER_04So is that was that like just a physical thing or an emotional thing or a mental thing a little bit?
SPEAKER_00Or just like physically, I'm not attracted to guys. Okay. Like I they don't do it for me. Yeah. Like you've got to kind of warm the oven before you can do anything. So they just didn't do that. Yeah. I find women so much more attractive. Yeah. It makes sense, you're a lesbian. But yeah, yeah. Um, and then I just I think that also impacts a lot on that emotional relationship too. Um I also find men not as fun to be in an emotional relationship with because I was like, just it did my head in. I don't like the like their personalities, really. Like they've got that very manly personality. I'm a very tomboy person. Like, this is like teaching. Do you describe yourself as a mask? Yeah. So soft mask is probably the way. So I still hold my feminine traits, I like my boobs, I like to show them off occasionally. But I'll generally do that if like a button-up vest that has my t-shirt under it. Or so I'm gonna like show off my curve, show off my feminine physique, but in a mask sense. Yeah, okay, then. Yeah. That's really like interesting. Quite funny. I only discovered that term a couple of weeks ago because Sinter. And I've been really struggling with my like clothing appearance physique type thing, and I was like, I don't know where I sit. I was like, I'm not like mask, mask, like I don't bind my chest to hide the boobs or anything like that. But I'm I'm not feminine. Yeah. There's no way. And like Tomway was what I stuck to for a very long time. Yeah. Because but it's a very childish term. Yeah, okay. So, but yeah, soft mask.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02See learning things to say things.
SPEAKER_04Well, also, I guess like that whole I'm gonna say queer domain is evolving. Yeah. Like mask was not a thing. Yeah. And now it's soft mask and hard mask, is that or just I think it's just mask.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so and then and then you have that sort of like just androgynous sense as well. Yeah. And that still sits there in that in that whole environment, too. So cool. So now back to the three women your current wife, yeah. So Cinta, who we love. We love Cinta. And then and then her her ex-girlfriend, yeah, which was actually my girlfriend at a stage too. Okay. So it all leads me to kind of where I got to these days, and it really shows it's quite funny, the lesbian community on how it works.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, Cynta has no relation to any of them, luckily, but they're the catalysts to get me to where I am now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so it would have been just after I turned 18, I ended up in a relationship with an old primary school friend. Yeah. Um, she she is lovely. Like, we dated for a while, but she was not ready to be in a committed relationship where I I at that stage, even though I was with a woman, wanted that dream life of I want to get married, have kids by 21. And 21. Yeah, that was my goal. Wow. I was like 11 years late. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. 21, that to me that's very young. But there are women out there who have children like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my mum was 20 when she had my oh like my sister, like um, and then that's for norm for you, then right. So for me, it was, and my my grandmother was young when she had my mother and her kids and everything like that. So for me, that young 20s was when you're supposed to have kids. Yeah. Like, what else are you supposed to do? Yeah. Yeah. Like, so I wanted to be married and everything by 21. I'm 18 at this stage. Yeah. So that was a lot of commitment to put onto the channel.
SPEAKER_04That's a lot of pressure as well for you. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And also I was trying to do a career at the same time. Yeah. I wanted to be a chef. Yeah. So I'm also an apprentice chef throughout all of this. Yeah. Um and then like that leads a lot into just the queer life as well. So I was 18, a chef dating this girl named Tanya.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we we're good. Well, like an eight-month relationship or something, so not a very long time, but 18 it is. 18, yeah, right. Exactly. So um, I was working as a chef and then I moved to Sydney with her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So because I was living in the Central Coast Gold uh Central Coast um down in New South Wales. Yeah. So Gosford, yes, the suburb I was in. So um we were down there. And so we grew up in that town together, and then we moved, I moved to Sydney. She also had moved to Sydney, so we spent a lot of time in Sydney together because I was working as a chef in there. So with her, she then we broke up but stayed really good friends and everything like that. And she's like, we're gonna meet up with my ex, who I'd heard all of these stories about the worst person in the world. I was like, if she's the worst person in the world, why are we hanging out with her? Yeah, I'm so lost. And then in walks Lara, um, her ex-girlfriend, and I went, Okay, I see the attraction. Yeah, okay, and everything like that. And then kind of from there, Lara and I started talking and everything like that. And then we ended up dating a couple of weeks later, yeah, and then had to explain it to my ex-girlfriend and her ex-girlfriend that we're now dating. Oh wow. So how did that go down? Not well. Not well, not well at all. Um, I had been I abused essentially being like, I've told you what she did to me in my relationship, and you're still I was like, Yeah, I'm young and dumb.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, as well. Um people can change when they're in the relationship with me.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, okay. Well, in general, yes, yeah. So that that could have been what you were thinking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So Tanya obviously led me to where I was. She kind of got me into the gay scene in Sydney as well, because with her I got that confidence of being out and being more queer in that scene environment, everything. In that meantime, of like between Tanya and Lara, I became a drag king. Oh that's so cool. So I was performing on stage, I had like the whole get up, everything. There's one photo I love where I'm like in like a suit and a tie, like a suit jacket, like and like I've got the fake beard on, and all the drag queens loved me. Like where what were you performing? Like mime, not mime, mum, lip syncing. Lip syncing, yeah. Let's think with white gloves. Yeah, that's not what I meant. Lip syncing? Yeah, so I was lip syncing on stage. What songs? Um, I want to dance with somebody, like a a male version of that one done up. Um, what else? There's a couple of otters and things like that. I love that. Yeah, that's so cool. So I did that for a couple of months as well. It was a lot of fun, just very exhausting. Working as a chef as well, still. Like I was my time was very poor. I spent a lot of time at work, and then like I was in that real clubby stage of I worked from like seven till three, and then I would come home, I would sleep. From like four to six, I'd get up and then I'd get dressed, I'd go out and meet up with all my friends, I'd stay out until like 2 a.m. Yeah, come home, sleep, get back up at six, get ready for work, go to work. Yeah. And that was just the whole cycle. Yeah. And that was throughout the weekdays too. Because living in Sydney and also like I was like 10 minutes from Oxford Street. Wow, yeah. So I spent a lot of time on there, like and everything like that. I knew all the drag queens, like half the people. I'd walk into a club and I'd know like 10 of the people that are dancing like straight there, straight away. So I was definitely Sid would call me a little whore. But I wasn't. I didn't really like, I was just, I'm just such a friendly person. Yeah. I just sleeping lines. I just want to make friends. Yeah. So definitely that's such a cool.
SPEAKER_04I think that's such a cool experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, look, it was great. And like I had a friend who got me into the draking side of things. So I don't even know how I think I met them in the club and they were draking, and I wanted to be that. So I got into that with them, and they were like, I was their drag baby, is that they called it. Oh, that's so funny. And so like I 100% love the the queer scene on Oxford Street 15 years ago. I don't know about how it is now. Oh but like I haven't been there for a long time. But it was fantastic back then. It was the place that you could feel safe. Yeah, okay. Back then we didn't have the people getting punched out on the streets because they were gay. Oxford Street was our street. Yeah. You didn't go on Oxford Street unless you want to be surrounded by gays. Yeah. If you don't want to, then don't go there. Then don't go there and stuff. So we didn't get a lot of the prejudice on the street, but we definitely got all of the prejudice off the street. Yeah. So I uh when I got together with Lara, I ended up leaving being a chef because of that prejudice. I was obviously a gay female looked quite then back then as well. I was a lot more mask than I am now. Um I was still trying to learn my style back then, so I had really, really short hair. I used to wear guys' clothes and everything like that. And of course, I was a drag king too. So like I played that whole male persona in my life. I didn't have being um like they them back then or anything like that. So I was just a very masculine-looking female and everything. So I got a lot of flack for that in work. So I remember I used to get comments of, oh, the boys are doing November. Amy, what are you joining in? Like just is that common within like the chef industry, the cooking industry, sexuality industry? Very sexist industry and then very homophobic industry altogether. So it's got both sides of that. Okay. Like the fact that I was a female in that industry was hard for them to understand. Because I'm down like surrounded by in a kitchen of ten chefs, it was me and another lady.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Type thing. And she was also not a very straight-looking lady, but had a husband. I was very confused. So like, yeah, so it was it's a very, very heavily male-dominated industry. So just the two of them combined in that industry was hard. I got sworn at, abused, like I got called cunt face, like multiple times because I would have a sick day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Because and then like they were just just not nice and would call me like faggot and all of those not nice derogatory terms that you'll get for someone in that kind of queer state. Yeah, okay. So yeah, lots of fun. Yeah. I left being a chef for them. I actually just I stopped going to TAFE, I stopped going to work, I just quit and I just dropped everything because I couldn't handle it. I ended up moving into sales, which weirdly suits me a lot better. Yeah. I found that I love talking to people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Being a chef, I always struggled with being behind the pass. So the pass is that um little space between the kitchen and the front of the house. Yeah. Yeah. So I struggled being behind the pass because I wanted to be out there talking to people. Yeah. But also love cooking. Yeah. Like so I was definitely not only working out my my queer sense, but working out what I now have to do to like live. Live. Yeah. So but like my story with Lara is pretty like we were six years together. Um and we went through a lot of that stuff together. It was hard to be out on uh just a general street and be affectionate with your partner. Like, especially back then, like what 13 years now, like ago, uh, in early 20s type thing, like it was it was hard. But I had a very blessed life in it's harder for some others.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I look back now and I'm like, yeah, okay, like I I got yelled at and um things like that, but I never got physically abused, um like assaulted or anything like that because of it. And so I've known some people that have definitely received some pretty serious injuries because they were queer or gay or however you want to label them, like it was yeah, definitely just very hard on that. But yeah, like we stayed together for a while, we got married, but it wasn't legalized, so it was technically called a commitment ceremony. Oh yeah. So we got committed.
SPEAKER_04Wow, it was a great commitment, it lasted three months. I know, yes. So obviously you were together for what, seven and whatever years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then three months later Yeah, so yeah, got through a lot of our relationship for her to three months after we had our commitment ceremony, just walk out. Didn't give me anything. Just I came home one day, all her clothes were gone. We were living in my parents' house at that stage. My parents had moved to Queensland. Um, so back on the Central Coast, living in that house. I was working as a sales associate for Vodafone. Oh no, actually, I'd moved to working for working for cars by that point. So I started my like a couple of months before that working in a car industry and selling cars. Um, so I was making good money. I was living well, I didn't see anything wrong in our relationship. So her her mum had stayed for a week in our house for that, like, and then when her mum left, she left.
SPEAKER_04Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Like she just exited with her mum. And like I went to work one day and came home and she was gone.
SPEAKER_04When you looked back, did you see I like I signal signs that something wasn't right for her?
SPEAKER_00Little ones, like she definitely like you could see that like she wasn't happy in some places, but we're not always, always happy. So for me, I just went, it was just a it was just a a phase like of unhappiness, like, but I didn't realise that I was the cause. Right. I just thought that there was something going on and she wasn't happy. Yeah. Her parents had just left. Um, her parents had sold their childhood home, and they were also moving to Queensland weirdly. Um, with but doing a travel around Australia first and things like that. And so I was really good friends with her mum, I was good friends with her dad. Like I didn't see any red flags. Yeah, okay. She just hid them all very fucking well. Yeah. I was yeah, I like I remember coming home and trying to call her and she wouldn't answer my phone. Cool. And everything like that. I drove to her dad's house where I found out she was staying. So it was a 45-minute drive to get to her dad's house. And um I remember getting there, it was like 1 a.m. in the morning, and I'm slamming on the door, being like, just fucking tell me what I did. Like what, how, how did I? I found out that like she she says it was a friend, um, but it was a mutual friend we had had been then like I found was sending a lot of time at that house and things like that after that point, and then they're actually in a relationship now. They're married and everything now. So I look back and I'm like, yay, I was very naive, and I didn't believe that you were fooling around with anyone else, but you probably were.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So did she ever tell you she said that she just didn't want what I wanted anymore. She didn't want kids. She didn't want she's married with a child now, by the way. Just yeah, right? I was like, so I don't know if it was that she had just fallen in love with somebody else or and started a relationship with them and then had to end it with me because she started getting close to this person probably a month after we got had our commitment ceremony type thing. Like they started getting close after that point, and then like it yeah, just fell apart. So I started I uh like a different job, so I was working a little bit more, so I wasn't around as much, and then like yeah. The heartbreak from that was devastating. I spent a lot of time on my work floor out the back crying because that was it. Yeah, that was my life. Like I had this whole life planned with her. We were living in this beautiful three-bedroom house that my my parents owned. Yeah, um, we were I I was ready to start talking kids, like we had spoken that after the commitment story, we'll start looking into how we fall pregnant and all this stuff to find out that she never wanted kids, she doesn't want kids with me, she doesn't want me, and everything. So yeah, I spent a lot of time on the floor crying, probably a good month or so, and then I packed everything up and I moved to Queensland with my mum and dad because they were up here, they moved up in the February, I moved up in the September. So I spent, I think it was four months total down there after the relationship ended, just not knowing what to do with my life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, so I moved up here.
SPEAKER_04And from the sounds of things, like the relationships that you'd had prior to her, it would kind of ended quite well. Yeah. Quite easily.
SPEAKER_00I could probably talk to any of them now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, and not have any hard feelings.
SPEAKER_04And had you ended them, the relationships or yeah, yeah. So that would have been rejection is never nice in any form. So that would have been Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think the only other person I hadn't ended the relationship with was Tanya, which was Lara's ex, our mutual ex. Like she had ended that, but it was a very like that one had flags coming. Yeah. I could see it. She like she at that stage had been talking to a therapist. I don't even remember the reasoning why, but yeah, and there was a lot going on in her life. She had a lot to deal with and a lot to work out as well. She was an Indian girl who was also gay, and that family dynamic is a whole different dynamic too. So um, yeah, so that was definitely yeah, not easy to accept, I'd have to say, like just that whole heartbreak to it all.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I've ever been so heartbroken as I was that moment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So okay. I guess in the long run, yeah, you know, it was a blessing. Yeah, it was a blessing, right? Like, I look back at it now like in hindsight, right? You can look back on it and be like, well, you're the reason I actually moved state. Yeah. You're the reason I now found my current wife. Yeah. And I'm happy and I've got kids, I've got everything I wanted. Yeah. And like with someone who wants that with you. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So it's definitely like just working out that that was a blessing, but back then it was not. So and then like it's also really hard trying to explain to people that you're upset over a girl.
SPEAKER_04Really? Yeah. That would make sense though. Because it's a phase. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's still a phase shape. Yeah. Like my mum and dad said that they accepted Lara and all that kind of stuff. And like, they accepted her as my friend.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00When it came down to a relationship, they were like, oh, come here, mom, we'll give you a cuddle. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Alright, here's work, go. Did they think that that could be the the turning point for you to make turn back to men? Maybe turn straight again? I because I know as a as a straight woman, if like I've broken up with a male in the past, I've been like, right, that's it. I'm dating women now. Did you have that way at any point?
SPEAKER_00I came to Queensland and got really close with a guy friend. Yeah. Um, and things like that. And you could kind of see that like moment of will she like then them kind of like hoping, will she go that way? Or things like that. He was in a relationship and has married that person now. Like he was not looking my way. Yeah. And like I always made jokes with the guys of well, you know, if I was straight, I'd date you, but I'm not. Yeah. That's the main ingredient. I'm not. I was like, there's definitely a main ingredient there. Yeah. I'm not straight, and I am not planning on going straight. So but I definitely think that there was that little bit of hope. My nan would say to me, even in my mid-20s, oh, do you know what would be nicest if like I gave your partner a kind of like felt like that prickle in the beard?
SPEAKER_02Why that just like made me cringe?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like just the way that she'd be like, I accept your current partner, but like a little bit of prickle on it, like a male's face is just comforting. I'd be like, No, it's not.
SPEAKER_04Like give me the ick, Nana, ew. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So like I just had that. Like it's funnily, the only ones who I found the most accepting were the people I thought my family would be the least accepting. Oh right. Which is my pop. Yeah, okay. Like my pop, my pop growing up was like this hard ass. And he would like, he's the kind of guy that you weren't allowed to leave the table until you finished a meal. And if you did leave the table, that was what you actually got the next morning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like he was that kind of bot hard ass. Yeah. He accepted every partner I brought to him. Yeah. Open arms. Yeah. Like he was so- Was that because he was open-minded, or is that because he loved you? He loved me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was all for his love for me. And like it was quite funny because I always thought he was the furthest like person in that family who would love me this much.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like, yeah, he loved I was his I was his golden child. And I never realized that I was his golden child. I don't know how I did it. But yeah. Yeah, so moved to Queensland. In this stage, working as a car salesperson at the same time. And then I went from so got a job up here within a week. I just had some really good connections. Apparently, I'm really great at making connections with people. So the person I work for down in Sydney actually knew the um one of the people, like the general manager of the dealership that I worked for up here. So he got me the interview and I was hired within a day. I think I got that kind of call. So that was yeah, like young 20s, it's like that moment of pride. So I think that was like a little bit of a breakthrough for me. I'm in a new state. I have a new job. Yeah. A fresh start. Yeah, I have a fresh start. I can keep going. Yeah, sure, I'm living back with my parents, but that's a means to an end at the moment. Like I'll get myself settled, I'll make good money. You can make really good money in car sales if you don't have time, if you don't like have family and things like that. So I worked in car sales for quite a bit of time. That industry is also very sexist and very homophobic, which is so funny that I went straight back into that area. Yeah. I used to have customers that I would actually not tell. I would hide the fact that I was dating a woman. Okay. Like I would say something about a partner. I've always learned to just, especially coming up through the generation idea, I don't have a girlfriend. I would say my partner and the people in the car sales industry were like, oh yo, yo, husband.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Unmarried. Yeah, you're just unmarried, it's just a partner. Yeah, right. Like it's it's it's a husband. I have a male partner. Like and I'd be like, and you can see it. And like I'd love to, I loved actually it's a woman. And just watching like that thing. But then there are the very people that you go, I am there is no way I'm leaving this car. Because it always always happens on a test drive. Yeah. Always happens on a test drive. I'm not leaving this car in one whole piece if they find out that my partner's a female.
SPEAKER_04So would you just not correct them or would you just go along with correct them? Fact that it you have a husband you have a male partner.
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't correct them, and I would still use the same terminology I always used. My partner. Yeah. They are. Yeah. This. And it was just always gender neutral terming and everything. I just would never correct that it was a female partner. Yeah, okay. And they would just, you'd just constantly, oh he must be really like special or like whatever, blah, blah, blah. He, him, husband, every terminology you could think. And I'd be like, mm-hmm. Yeah. They're really great. Yeah. They're doing great. And so like that's humbling to a degree because like, you know how sometimes you get into a relationship and you're like, you just want to like, you're so happy. You sort of tell everyone about them. Yeah. And then you just you can't say shit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because isn't that disappointing?
SPEAKER_00And then on top of that, I dated a girl who was straight and closeted. Yeah. I married her. As well.
SPEAKER_02That's Cinta. Oh, okay. So I lived in Queensland. I fully thought you had another wife in there then. No. Okay. One ex-wife, one current wife. Okay, okay. I was like, how many are there? Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I met Cinta. Yeah. Um, about a year into being in Queensland. There was in that year, there was a bit of like going back to my ex and then coming back to Queensland.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, okay. Um to try to work things out. Yeah. So you were committed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right? Like I was committed to like, and then so we tried to work things out and it didn't work. So I was like, that's it. I'm done. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I met Cinta and she kind of changed that for me as well. Like I was able to finally actually move on because there was now this new light. So I've definitely found that that was she helped a lot moving out of that space. I wouldn't have been anywhere near that if it wasn't for the move to Queensland and the job I got. I would never have met Cinta. So I'm grateful for my past, even though it was hard. Like, yeah, I was I got told just because Cinta was away once that it she's having an affair. Who told you that? Oh, my boss. Oh right. So like because he can't fathom two girls being committed to each other. That's crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so like just that And really it I feel like it's more the men who are gonna cheat.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04Like just what the statistics would say, I would guess.
SPEAKER_00But he was a Muslim male who couldn't fathom Yeah, right. The only thing that he cared about was the sexual side of it. Because back then, well no back then still now. Yeah, lesbians and same-sex relationships are like just put in this spotlight of like it's not natural, but we can watch them fuck. Yeah, right, of course. Yeah. So the relationship itself is taboo, but oh, it's a massive tour. Women and women is fine, yeah. And like I remember like just some of the things we've done where we've been hit up being like, can we watch you? Oh really? 100%. Oh my god. Yeah. I don't know if Cinder touched face on it, but it's part of like even just finding a sperm donor. We got asked. I think that she did vaguely actually. Yeah, we got asked um to essentially be his porn so that he could come in a cup. Yeah.
unknownYuck Min.
SPEAKER_00Yuck Min. Right, I know, right. But like you can still say it even if you're straight, like some men are just Oh yeah, absolutely. And like just the just because I'm in a same-sex relationship doesn't mean that you get to sexualise in any way, shape, or form. Yeah. It's the same as just because you're in a hetero relationship doesn't mean that I get to sit here and wonder how you guys fuck.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So. And I guess there's also like there's just such an well, there was maybe less now, but I don't know. There's a man in the marriage and there's a woman in the marriage. Even if it's two women or two men. One of you has to be the man. This one's a man. One of you has to be the woman. Do you mow the lawns? I do, does again. Who gets the spoters?
SPEAKER_02Generally not me. Yeah. Oh okay.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Yeah, like there are there are male male and female dominated uh obviously household tasks, which doesn't mean that I'm a man in the relationship. No. I was like half the time Cinder wears the pants, man.
SPEAKER_04Like Yeah. And I think like also that I assume flows into this sexual assumption that you always wear the strap on. Oh, I don't know. You're always the giver and never the receiver, but for certain it's equal. 100%, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And like, yeah, and it's just it also really affects your mentality into that relationship in that sexual side of things. Yeah. But you're constantly getting asked who's the man or who's on top or whatever questions is, it then really makes you question it when you're in that whole sexual experience. Yeah. Of oh, I'm the more mask one. Yeah. I should be the more dominating one. Yeah. Like that should be my role. Just because I look like that means that I need to be that. And like I've struggled a very long time in that whole sexual experience of things. Like I never knew what I enjoyed in sex because it's to go with fucking must be a particular way. Yeah. And then like even then, like talking about toys was very like shaded. Yeah, okay. And everything like that. So I had no idea, like, I didn't even get into a world of even experiencing toys until I was in my mid-20s. Okay. Because in a same-sex relationship, it even though it feels like it should be quite common and natural, finally, in the actual in the actual group of people, it's very like like you don't talk about it. Yeah. So I had nobody to even talk these things with. Yeah. I was like, like toys were for self-pleasure, not for couple pleasure.
SPEAKER_04Oh. Yeah. Right? That's very interesting because I just assumed that like lesbians had a giant drawer full of toys. Look, they probably so you're straight women though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like they probably do. But um I didn't for a very, very long time. Yeah. It wasn't until yeah, my mid-20s that I kind of started learning about it all.
SPEAKER_04Did a partner introduce that to you or were you just curious? Partner introduced it to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The the heartbeat thing is, is my brain's like, how much of my sexual story do I tell? All of it. But yeah, like like I had no idea what I liked. I had no idea. I was told that you know you must like click to play as a female. I don't. As a as a uh gay lady, there's a penetration, no, yeah, internal like stimulation, you can't like that. Yeah, you don't like cock. No, yeah. Like I don't like not that I don't like cock, I don't like the cock on a man. Yeah. You be a lovely purple one out of the drawer, it's fine. Yeah. But I didn't know that because I got told I'm a lesbian, I can't like a penis.
SPEAKER_04And also, so many women can't climax from internal stimulation. They need clitoral play. 100%. And I'm the complete opposite.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, wow. Clitoral play is a great foreplay for me, but don't try and get me to climax from that because it's too overstimulating. Wow. Yeah. Like I didn't learn a lot of this until Cinta. Yeah, okay then. Cinta is like the closeted gay. She's like, she's the closeted gay who introduced me to sex toys. Yeah, wow. Yeah. So yeah, that was definitely a very experience.
SPEAKER_04It's so interesting that as a lesbian, like, and rephrase this and correct me if you want to, as a lesbian, you've still fallen into the the taboo stereotypical, this is what I should like because I'm a lesbian.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_04In that lived experience. Yeah. Whereas, yeah, like Yeah, that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00Strap play for me was like just unfathomable. Like, oh what do you mean one of us wears a cock?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're gay, we don't like cock. And is that what you thought? Or was that just what you'd been told? It's what I've been told. Yeah. Do you know how like when you've been told something for so long, that's fact. Yeah. Until you change it. Yeah. Like, I massively changed like my whole rewrote my whole like experience with sexual experiences because my history with sexual experiences are not only there's a sexless sexual assault right at the beginning where like I don't want to ever deal with a penis after that. Yeah. Um as well. And then there's that whole my parents were very much any kind of no PDA. No, like anything that is sexual is behind the closed door. Like you don't talk about it, you don't do it in front of anyone else, you don't do anything like that. Like it was just very What about like hand holding and kissing? No kissing. Yeah. Um handholding, yeah. As long as it if it sat, there's like this line for them that if it sat under like this intimacy line of like hand holding's fine, or maybe a quick cuddle, but as soon as you got into like too long of like that constant cuddle type thing, or even that like just a quick kiss or even just like that small, like intimate kiss before you leave. You know that one where it's not like a peck on the lips, but it's not like a full makeout session, that's too much. Right? Like, so if I were Are you affectionate? Very yeah, I guess. Very affectionate, yeah. I it since I had to learn a lot when it came to affection because she was not. Yeah. That was also then a really big learning experience for me because I'm this positive affectionate person because I everything for me is behind closed doors, and she's this not affectionate person and who doesn't know how to be gay.
SPEAKER_04Who doesn't know how to be gay. She didn't. How did you two meet? Uh, through a mutual friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay then. Um, so I walked into my mutual friend's house after spending the day with her, and Cinta was with her husband, and like the mutual friend's. Yeah, not Cinder's. Yeah, we're confused. Like Cinta didn't touch on that before. Yeah, no. No, so she was with um my friend's husband. Cinta was learning acupuncture at that stage, so she's still deep in like her second year, and was practicing and treating him because he's a massive athlete, and so she was treating him for trying to just help relieve the muscle tenseness and all that kind of stuff. And we thought it would be funny that I walk into that room first, and they thought it would be funny to make moaning sounds. So I walk in the room and Cynth looks up at me and she goes, Oh, you're not Donna. I was like, Nope, definitely not, because I was looking forward to seeing her, like the husband. I didn't realise that there was company either. And I was like, And who are you? Like I was so thrown off because obviously there's been tools in the room, like and then like then it was that moment of like instant attraction. Like I instantly wanted to be talking to her and I wanted to get to know her more and things like that. And I think we I was literally supposed to be there for five minutes. I spent an hour and a half there because we then moved outside and we were sitting out on the back deck talking like the four of us type thing, and I just didn't want to leave.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I was trying to find a reason to keep talking to her.
SPEAKER_04That's really sweet.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if you ever tried to find Cynthia on Facebook, but it's not easy.
SPEAKER_04Um because her and I connected through social media. I didn't have to look for her. So but I know that her name is very strange.
SPEAKER_00Well, one, her her first name is uncommon. Yeah. And then also she doesn't have her actual surname, it's her surname. Yeah. Um, so I couldn't find her. Her security levels are also so high that I couldn't search through my friend's Facebook list to find her. So I spent probably a good like eight hours trying to stalk her. Oh, good on you. To like actually be able to just talk to her out there. This says Chivalry's dead. She ended up finding me. Oh she reached out to me. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. At this stage, I just think she's a straight girl. Yeah. So I'm trying to like suss her out and talk to her more. Like, I have this in insane desire to keep talking to this straight girl. Yeah. I was so confused in myself. I was like, Amy, you said you would never do this. Like, this is not the ideal situation. Like, you now have to work out dealing with her coming out story and all of this stuff too. And and also, I don't want to be that person being like, I touch a straight girl. Like, it's not for the cocky side of things.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I know Cynth did say, and I I hope she said this in the podcast, Cynthia. I'm so sorry if you don't win this as like a private thing. But you said to her, like, are you gay? And she was like, I don't know. Um I still ask her that even answering. She's like, You tell me. I mean, I'm lesbian. I am attracted to you is what we're at. I was like, Yeah. But I did I did think that that was really funny because I can imagine being like, mm-mm. Like tell you told me, you know.
SPEAKER_00Tell me. So I think I think very much in the beginning there, like she struggled a bit in like her coming out storytellers, but she had very Christian parents. Um, she's still Christian, so am I now? Like, that's a whole like added aspect into that queer side of things. Yeah. Like, but um, so she had very, very Christian South African parents. Being gay is not a choice.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00So she dealt with that. We were roommates for I think we were like three years. Oh wow. We got engaged. Us getting engaged was her catalyst to tell her parents that we were dating. Wow. We told them they were dating, and then like I think it was like, I don't know, she'll correct me later, but like three months later we tried we told them that we were engaged. Yeah, we're gonna be able to.
SPEAKER_04Like did you propose or did she?
SPEAKER_00Quite funny, both of us. Oh that's so um we were 2018. Um I think we're like two and a bit years into our relationship. So at this stage, I'm already like I I've I'm way past my plan. Yeah. I need to get married. Yeah. And we also both went into this relationship with um prerequisites. Yeah. I came to a relationship saying, I want kids. Yeah. It's a non-just non-like, if you don't, you don't like like I like you enough to pursue this, but if you don't, I can't do it. Yeah, non-negotiable. And yeah, that's the word, thank you. There you go. It took me a while to get myself. Non-something. Um but yeah, so and then she came in with non-negotiables as well that she wanted to be married and that she wouldn't go more than how many years was it? I think it was after two years she wanted a ring on it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We were a little bit later than the two-year mark, or roughly around that time, but that was like her non-negotiable. She'd spent a long time in a relationship prior to, and she was like, We're starting to get towards our 30s, like I'm 25, 26 at this stage, so starting to get towards that late 20s mark, like we want to get married and start that process. Well, I don't want to be having kids until my late 30s, like yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I I think I did discuss this with Cinta. It's there's a process for you and for her. You know, it's not just a simple, okay, let's have a baby and start trying right now. You've got four donors. Take it off, like yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So you that would add more pressure. 100%, like the pressure to it all. So yeah, it was like two in two years into that relationship, but we were both very much committed to I and we could tell, like, it was that moment of from the day that we started talking, we didn't stop. It was just we would stay up until like 2 a.m. talking and just weirdest and randomness stuff we would talk about. Like, I remember there's talks about being a dolphin, like it was just that that nonsensical channel because you don't want to go to sleep because you don't want to stop talking. Yeah, and so that was us and lose the magic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like then we moved into playing netball together and like just doing all of that. So it definitely was a very long process, it felt like, but then uh after all of it, we got engaged by two years. So and it I feel like it's a very typical lesbian relationship, is that we were moving we moved in together after three months.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I think you've said lesbians move fast. Lesbians move fast. I don't know if you've heard it, but the most common joke about a lesbian is what do they bring to their first date? No. Are you ball? Oh, okay, that's good. Yeah. That's like that's it's that's how fast lesbians uh jokes to move, and it's quite true, honestly.
SPEAKER_04Do you think that that's because like women are typically better at communicating? So you've kind of like you're both open to communication, you're both sharing when you're on the same page, there's less guesswork than between a man and a woman.
SPEAKER_00Maybe a little on the communication, but we're also so much more in tuned with our own feelings. Yeah. So we're like always happy to step into something a little bit quicker than like a man because he one hasn't picked up the electric one like three months ago. Yeah. Type thing. So like I feel like we're definitely a lot more in tune to ourselves and what we want. And then that helps with that communication too. Because I was like, from the moment we started talking, we were talking by December about moving in with each other. Yeah. We started officially dating in the November.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00So, and then she went to she was already planning to go to Greece very early on in our relationship. And that's when my old boss made the joke about you know, she's overseas, she's she's fucking around. Looking up with Greek boys. Yeah. Mind you, she would have loved that to a degree if she was single. Yeah. But she was in a relationship, so she wouldn't have done that. Like she loves Greece, like everything Greece, she would have hackling the Greece guy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04If the opportunity, but there was no opportunity.
SPEAKER_00But there was no opportunity. She was in a commitment, she's this lovely, Christian-hearted, like committed person that there was no even thought for her to even think outside of me at that stage.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and that I think that's what whether you're Christian, whether you're XYZ, she was so into you. Yeah. Like you don't, when you're into someone, that's so sweet. But you don't you don't see outside of that person. 100%.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00There was obviously always that insecurity for me too. Like, I mean this fresh relationship, and then now she's going away. I think it was like a whole month. Her reasoning was so incredibly genuine on why she was away. She was going over helping refugees. Like, so like I can't say holidays. Yeah. Like you're away for like a month type thing, but you're helping people who were dealing with a lot of like displacement and like being all this refugee. Like, it was just horrible too. So, like, it was hard because I was like, I like you, but don't leave. But also, please go, please go and help people. Like, yeah. So we spent like the whole time every time that she was like, it was nighttime for her, it was like stupid o'clock for me, and I'd just be waiting up for her to talk to her or whatever it would be. So we managed to keep it alive throughout all of that, which was lovely. Yeah. She came back, I flew down, so she flew into Melbourne, and I was at Melbourne waiting for her. Like I flew down because she was coming straight back into a week worth of uni work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And everything. So I flew down and I met her down there just because I I couldn't go another week. Like I just so I took a whole week off work, went down there, and did that. So yeah. So how long have you guys been together now? Coming up ten years. Wow. Yeah, I think end of next year is ten years. So nine years this year. I have to think, honestly. It just feels like it's been an eternity. Like you probably feel the same. Once you're married and with kids, you forget how long it's actually been because even just the last two years with the boys just felt like like I've had them for my whole life. Yeah, yeah. Like I can't think about what we really actually did with my time before the boys.
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah, no, absolutely. I feel like I've been with Harry, yeah, like there wasn't a time before him. Yeah. I don't there was because I have memories, but emotionally there wasn't a time before him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I understand. Yeah, and like it was, yeah, I don't know, right. Like she's just changed my whole life. She introduced me to so much, she really just gave me she made me confident in who I am, which is really funny to think that the straight girl made the gay confident. Yeah. In not only her sexuality, but in her whole life. Like, but she was the one that gave me the confidence to step more into it, as I was saying before, like like sex toys and things like that, and like really get to experience. And even to this day, like I am once again back to questioning myself in regards to my whole rewritten existence of who I am, because so much is more coming out about being um like they, them, and that whole side of things. And I'm like, well, I don't really feel like I feel like a female, but I don't feel like a man. Maybe I feel more like like I'm in that category, and like even just questioning that now. I'm like, I never thought that at this stage of my life I'd be questioning my gender.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So and yeah, that's something that is I have so many questions about like gender and identify as a female. And so for me, like it's just straight, like, that's just how it is. And so I find it really interesting to feel confusion because a body to me is a vessel. Yeah, that's all it is. Like, but for someone who doesn't feel that way, yeah, I can't like I'm so like I want to empathize, I want to understand.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's yeah, right. It's just something I think. Like I I remember growing up, I was always like, I don't never felt like a female. And I was like, oh maybe I'm a maybe I'm a boy. Like, and so that's why I when I was always a little more like mask, I was like, maybe I'm supposed to be a guy. But then I was I I feel I feel like a female half the time. Like, as I said before, I like my curves, yeah, my boots, yeah, but it doesn't mean I am fully a female, but I'm not a man, like so. Like I definitely feel like I'm more in that in-between state of just yeah, trying to work out what I am, and like that's the hard part. Like, and even just talking about it, like you don't feel because do you know how much of an idiot you sound sometimes to yourself when you're like, Am I a girl? Like, I had sat there for like we started kung fu, so I've spent a lot more time around people because it's a purely queer-based kung fu. Oh wow, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, so I have a non-binary teacher. Um, they're absolutely amazing. I love them, they're actually my current role model. Like, I want to be them. Is that why you're questioning? Do you think? Yes and no. Like, I feel like they've helped and introduced it more into me. Yeah. Because I never, like, as much as I used to be in the queer scene so much growing up, when I moved to Queensland, I moved to Queensland, I was up here for a year, ended up in a committed relationship, never got to experience that, never got out, never. I don't have a lot of queer friends up in Queensland. I left all of that behind when I moved. So, like, when I lost that that relationship with my ex, I didn't just lose her. I lost all the friends I had down there because she made me feel like I couldn't live in that area anymore. I stopped going to queer scenes and stopped going and hanging out with all my drag queens and all that kind of stuff. And I changed a whole different state because and then I never felt comfortable enough because I didn't have friends up here to take me out. So I went from being like the most popular person on town to knowing no one. Yeah. It's a huge shift. Yeah. It's a huge shift. But yeah, so stepping back into kung fu, yeah, I'm now surrounded again. And I've kind of like it feels so much more like home because I walk in and I don't care if I talk about my wife. Yeah. I can just, I can just say whatever I want. Well, they know her, she's right next to me. Like and there's so many jokes, and like even my my instructor, my Sifu, like they their partner is part of the class too, and like you just feel so welcomed. So, like, it's just having that village again. It's amazing. But like, there's a couple of different people there that are non binary. My favorite music artist right now is non binary, so it's very Much and I think the whole decision of like I've never felt like I really fit in my body, I don't know who I am, but am I just questioning this because it's now who I'm around?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But and is this something that you can um like try on for a little while? Like identify as they them, identify as like a neutral point, and then in two years, six months come back and be like, actually, no, I do feel I feel more feminine. I've tried that style on and it's not who I am. And you won't be like judged or scorned for look, is it gender fluidity?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, there are definitely some people that believe that when you go one way, you can't go another way. Yeah, I don't feel like that. I feel like honestly, you're self-exploration. Yeah, man. Be who you want to be. If who you were 10 years ago isn't who you are now, that's pretty natural to be honest. Like just because you liked guys ten years ago doesn't mean you have to like a guy now. Just because you were a girl then doesn't mean you have to be a girl now. And I feel like it's hard because saying that in the queer area, you feel like you're judging people for flipping or not flipping, or like you don't want people to jump in, then you sound homophobic. Yeah. Like, look, just be fluid, just be whatever you want to be, and then other people are like, just like choose one. Yeah. So it's hard. So I was yeah, I don't know. Like, this is as I was saying, it's a very new thing for me to even be thinking about it. So I was like, Cindra and I were talking about it the other night, and I was like, I don't know. I'm like, just think on it more, just talk. And we just I was like, it doesn't actually change anything in my life. No, it doesn't change who I am, it doesn't change anything. So if I just want to change my pronouns and it makes me feel happier, then that's fine. I'll do that. Like, but it doesn't have to change anything else.
SPEAKER_04No, it doesn't, and I think that's life to me. That's life. You try new hobbies, you try new genders, you try new relationships, like you have to try these things, and this is why we have these discussions, and this is why I'm so grateful to you and to all the women who are sharing their stories, because it there shouldn't be judgment for wanting to explore who you are, yeah, and trying something new and realizing that that's not who you actually feel like you are. Exactly. This is why these conversations are so important for someone to listen who is so close-minded and said, No, you have to be this, to now hear a humane side of exploration and self.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then hopefully for them to be like, okay, actually, I don't need to be so black and white.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04There are there's so many different things in the world. Exactly, yeah. So yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much. We were just, I was just saying this. I am so grateful that you've been able to provide this insight into what it's like to be a lesbian. You know, it's not just, oh, you're attracted to women and that's the end of it. You're able to really share why you're not attracted to men, what it is about that dynamic that's not for you. And there are gonna be women out there who hear your story and are already probably questioning where they're at in their life, but now that you've been able to verbalize what it's like for you to be a lesbian, they're gonna be like, wow, okay, that actually really resonates with me. So thank you so much for having such a good insight into your sexuality. Um, as always, I like to finish these episodes with um if you could go back in time or if there's someone who's going through a similar situation as you what you went through, what would you like to share with them? What information or what do you think is relevant for them?
SPEAKER_00Honestly, if for anybody who went through anything I have, or even if it was like back to my younger self, I'd actually just say find your chosen family because it's all way too hard by yourself. I lost my chosen family, as I was saying to you before when I moved to Queensland, and that became really hard. So just keep the people who make you feel comfortable that can help you branch out and learn about yourself close. Don't lose them. Like just pick them up and hold them, put them in a bucket. Yeah. Like they're the people that really will help you. Yeah. And they're the chosen ones, not the ones that are blood.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. The brain is meant to be social and social media is causing that, but that's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah.